Bill Fletcher: Keep Fighting Till The Lights Go Out

A conversation that touches on internationalism, the expanding political role of Black immigrants, and the need for building organization and contesting for governing power.

by Steven Pitts and Bill Fletcher, Black Work Talk

Black Work Talk comes full circle: This is the last episode of this iteration of Black Work Talk, and host Steven Pitts talks with Bill Fletcher Jr, who was the show’s first guest in November 2020. Their wide-ranging conversation started with some historical reflection on Black worker organizing and leadership, beginning with the National Negro Labor Council in the 1930s and then the National Negro American Labor Council, which did so much to build the 1963 March on Washington.

They reflected on neoliberalism in Black politics, and the dangers that emerge when people who get elected on a progressive message find themselves blocked or walk back their politics. “In the absence of pressure from the Left, a couple things can happen,” Fletcher said. “One is people become discouraged, and cynical, and say, ‘Hey, there’s no point in engagement, because all these guys are fools.’ Another thing that can happen is that people become open to right-wing alternatives.”

The conversation touched on internationalism, the expanding political role of Black immigrants, and the need for building organization and contesting for governing power. Asked at the end what advice he would offer from his vantage point as a movement veteran, Fletcher began by saying “Our determination to change the planet keeps us young, and when people give up on that you become old. That’s the framework that we all need to have. You’re fighting until the lights go out.”

Bill Fletcher Jr. is a longtime trade unionist, writer and speaker. He was also a president of TransAfrica Forum, chairperson of the board of directors of Advocates for Minor Leaguers, and co-coordinator of the Campaign to End the Moroccan Occupation of Western Sahara. He is a member of the International Work Team of Liberation Road. He has written and edited several books, including Solidarity Divided: The Crisis in Organized Labor and A New Path Toward Social Justice (with Fernando Gapasin, University of California Press, 2009) and the murder mystery novel The Man Who Fell From the Sky (Hardball Press, 2018) and its forthcoming sequel.

Steven Pitts is a long-time labor strategist. For 19 years, Steven led the UC Berkeley Labor Center, where he focused on a wide range of issues facing Black workers. He is a co-founder of the National Black Worker Center. Prior to joining the Labor Center, he taught economics for 15 years at the Houston Community College, and worked in a machine shop where he was active in the United Steelworkers of America. He received his Ph.D. in economics from the University of Houston in 1994.